New emergency services radio under threat

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New emergency services radio under threat

Postby G4RMT » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:11 pm

I got a notice today in a union communication, of all things.

Britain is unlikely to be ready for the December 2019 delivery date. Old news perhaps, but there is a link to have a look at if you are interested.

http://bit.ly/airwave_comms

Dated January this year.
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Re: New emergency services radio under threat

Postby m0lsx » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:33 pm

A government contract that is not going to be finished on time :!: :!: :!:
Never... :-o :shock: I can't believe it.. :-o :-o :shock: :-?

My wife works in the NHS & most paperwork is now only able to be done online, yet their IT support is Monday to Friday 9-5. She works, like most front line staff nights & weekends etc & if her login crashes at night, she either has to do overtime & get it sorted when they come on duty, or go without all the paperwork she needs the next night / few nights. And if the system crashes Friday evening, then it's wait until Monday morning.
Forget weekends being dangerous because of a lack of senior doctors, it dangerous because sometimes the required paperwork cannot be accessed.
This Police system has been a farce from the start. All, except one, of the companies interested in taking the contract for this system on, dropped out. So it was not a best bidder wins, but the only idiots interested, got it.
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Re: New emergency services radio under threat

Postby G4RMT » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:35 pm

If I read it correctly - if the old system has to continue, Motorola make a packet by the extension of their system, if the new system works and goes in on time, Motorola make a packet by start up payments? The old monopolies and mergers commission would have stopped this, but what a crazy system.

What I did read in the report was a small sentence about priority in emergency situations - the deal with EE guarantees priority when emergency situations occur. That's pretty clever and sensible.
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Re: New emergency services radio under threat

Postby m0lsx » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:19 pm

G4RMT wrote: What I did read in the report was a small sentence about priority in emergency situations - the deal with EE guarantees priority when emergency situations occur. That's pretty clever and sensible.


Except that in something like 7/7 that could actually make the role of the emergency services even harder. First the emergency services take over the whole of the system, so no one can call them about new or evolving situations on EE phones or other service providers that use EE infrastructure, plus the current system is that service providers share infrastructure, so that could mean, or more likely probably will mean that more than EE clients are effected.
Next in a situation like 7/7 if people cannot make contact with someone who they believe may be in that area, then they phone the emergency services, so that again causes the emergency services to suffer an extra & unneeded pressure.
I'm not so sure it's a good idea if, or when something really big happens.
Also EE has a poor history of service outages on particular masts for long periods & big areas of the UK are at best weak signal areas for 3 & 4G coverage & EE do not cover a lot of areas at all.
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Re: New emergency services radio under threat

Postby mickydt » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:15 pm

when we had a power outage here EE services went down so surely there would be a need for some kind of backup radios.
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Re: New emergency services radio under threat

Postby m0lsx » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:02 pm

mickydt wrote:when we had a power outage here EE services went down so surely there would be a need for some kind of backup radios.

When Airwave was put out to contract it was suppose to have power back up as part of the system. Yet many Airwave repeaters go off air instantly when there is a power outage & some can remain operational for several hours.
I belive the origional contract was to remain operational for 24 or 48 hours.
So the new system is doing nothing that the old Airwave system did not.
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Re: New emergency services radio under threat

Postby Skirge » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:23 pm

How is this system going to work in any situation that requires crown control such as say a football match ?

I am a Newcastle fan and know when I am at the match my EE phone may say full signal and 4g but send a test or open a webpage NOT A CHANCE.
Anywhere we a load of phones are sharing one mobile mast is going to cause huge issues for this new system.

Are we the only country that encrypts their emergency services radio transmissions ?
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Re: New emergency services radio under threat

Postby thelad » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:07 am

I believe it would be a private network for them so separate from the public side but i expect they would get priority in anycase. My other half was doing some testing in the early days of LTE for this system and it had a lot of "ifs" and "buts". They still have alot more testing to do with it and i expect the roll out date to be put back again.
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Re: New emergency services radio under threat

Postby G4RMT » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:05 am

For many years now cellular radio has had the ability to run priority channel as either extras or as inhibitors on the main system. Emergency planners using public systems in emergencies flagged up the problem of cellphone sharing years ago. Nowadays the infrastructure is much more solid, and it's software, that's all. Everyone forgets that Airwave just didn't work very well. The data facility never worked properly from day one, with Airwave carrying police officers using their phones because they work better!

Much as I missed the emergency services from the ear wiggling point of view, from the tactical perspective, open comms that anyone can listen to is plainly ridiculous in this modern world. We also have legislation that requires data to be protected, so passing personal details openly is illegal. The schools are starting to buy radios they can encrypt because safeguarding laws prevent jonnies problem being talked about publicly. In my job one of my responsibilities is safeguarding my staff, and the staff themselves must keep schtumm on things they know. Confidentiality agreements and even the wireless telegraphy act impact on my job nowadays.

Emergency services are being encrypted all over the world. Why would any security organisation NOT do it? The US is a problem because of their constitution, and everything is supposed to be open, but that's gradually changing with the world situation, and they will go eventually. As it gets to be no cost to be encrypted thre is no reason at all not to do it. The crooks worldwide are doing it for obvious reasons. One of the shops on the industrial estate have gone digital, and I'm told it's encrypted because they asked the supplier for a private system, and got it. The reason was again, data protection. Any firm who holds data has by law to keep it safe. Using radio to pass names and addresses and when they are in or out breaks that law. If the house got burgled as a result they'd lose in court. If I was spending thousands on a system for myself, would I want it in the clear or not?
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Re: New emergency services radio under threat

Postby Skirge » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:22 am

I had read somewhere that the new EE ESN was going to be on the public network with priority, even though coverage on the network is much better than it used to be I still think this system is going to be an epic fail.


I think in terms of PMR it's Motorola who offer an inversion encryption on their radio's, I know that can be decrypyed on a pc but I think a lot more companies will look at using that system.
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