P25 -APCO (APCO P25 Phase I, Motorola, EDACS, LTR

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Re: P25 -APCO (APCO P25 Phase I, Motorola, EDACS, LTR

Postby Davie Boy » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:26 pm

It should be easy for someone in the Suffolk area to confirm... I imagine these frequencies will transmit data and such for long periods of time even when they are not speaking as is the way with tetra... and that nasty machine gun noise is unmistakable.

if they are MOD Police, they will be using Airwave TETRA. If that's the case then the frequencies will be in the Airwave bands, and those 410Mhz freqs are not.


Not the case anymore I think... see my thread here on Nottingham Trams using Tetra here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4133

..and if you mean Airwave then I believe it is being used between 450-453 MHz and other places beyond the original 380-395 MHz at first roll out. I expect this to change more when the blue light services ditch Airwave shortly. I do not see any customers wanting to step in the emergency services shoes to buy Airwave that would justify keeping the airwave repeaters running when you tally in the cost.
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Re: P25 -APCO (APCO P25 Phase I, Motorola, EDACS, LTR

Postby jimh » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:15 pm

>Not the case anymore I think.
Ok, so I was very specifically talking about the AIrwave flavour of TETRA ie that MOD Police are on the Airwave network. I'm well aware that there are several private TETRA networks in the UK, but the Notts Trams networks is new to me - so thanks for that info.

>then I believe it is being used between 450-453 MHz
Are you sure about this? I am aware that there is a private network operator running TETRA systems for the Prison Service in this band. But it's not Airwave. I'd appreciate any info you have if I've got this wrong.
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Re: P25 -APCO (APCO P25 Phase I, Motorola, EDACS, LTR

Postby Davie Boy » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:12 pm

jimh wrote:>then I believe it is being used between 450-453 MHz
Are you sure about this? I am aware that there is a private network operator running TETRA systems for the Prison Service in this band. But it's not Airwave. I'd appreciate any info you have if I've got this wrong.


No not all you are better informed than me... I just read it somewhere and heard the similar noise to the Airwave band on a local prison and assumed it was so... That is good to know then... If osmocom do a windows version in the future I may be able to listen to the prison again which would be nice as I can see the prison from my house.
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Re: P25 -APCO (APCO P25 Phase I, Motorola, EDACS, LTR

Postby Davie Boy » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:22 pm

jimh I do get another prison a little further away and this sounds more like DMR than TETRA? Is there a mix of both systems in use do you know...?
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Re: P25 -APCO (APCO P25 Phase I, Motorola, EDACS, LTR

Postby jimh » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:30 pm

>be able to listen to the prison again
Believe they're all encrypted though :sad:

I do get another prison a little further away and this sounds more like DMR
Yes. The majority are actually MotoTRBO DMR now, with a few TETRA. But even the DMR ones are encrypted based on all the reports I've seen. I think the first ones to go digital went TETRA, but then DMR took off and of course everyone realised it was a more cost effective solution. The cost of being an early adopter. That's why I was surprised to see the Notts trams select TETRA.
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Re: P25 -APCO (APCO P25 Phase I, Motorola, EDACS, LTR

Postby Fires999 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:51 pm

Hi guys,
Great thread !!
Just to confirm that Raf Alconbury and Raf Molesworth use APCO encrypted - USAF Security Forces (police) and so does the Fire Dept and Civil Engineering Dept.
MOD Police use Airwave ,however they have just started carrying an APCO handheld in their vehicles to speak direct with USAF Police.

No plans for USAF to change anything at these 2 bases apart from possibility of Fire Dept having UHF handhelds on 457mhz dmr/pmr to be able to speak to Cambs or Northants Fire at incidents on or near the base.

I presume MOD will change to whatever the Police decide in England when Airwave finishes.

PM if you need any more info
Thanks
Fires999 (Based at Raf Molesworth) :walkietalkie:
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Re: P25 -APCO (APCO P25 Phase I, Motorola, EDACS, LTR

Postby Minus1 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:38 am

The USAF is not the RAF.

just because the government sick "RAF" in front on a base name does not mean it is run by the RAF.

USAF bases uses P25, not TETRA. Why would they be daft enough to spend money on Airwave when they can run their own system for much less money?

Most printed scanner books are in my experience a complete waste of money and time, out of date before they are even printed. The world has moved on.
I reserve the right to ignore people who have made no attempt to the read the manual, and expect others to do it for them.
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Re: P25 -APCO (APCO P25 Phase I, Motorola, EDACS, LTR

Postby jimh » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:03 pm

So i think many of us are saying pretty much the same thing, but I can see how it can get confusing for some people less familiar with who uses what radios.

To summarise:
- To my knowledge, all the USAF bases in the UK have had a small [token] contingent of UK services personnel 'attached' to them. However they are largely administrative in nature. These sorts of sites have MoD Police as the main guard force, but this is by and large covering the site perimeter. The majority of the policing and personnel inside the fence is US personnel. A key reason for giving them an 'RAF' title was for legal reasons - back in days when protesters regularly invaded the sites - so that UK Police could more easily prosecute protesters for incursions onto UK Military sites, despite ownership of the site always having been with MoD but made available for the US DoD.

- So there will be some TETRA Airwave usage on these sites: but it's by the Brits (MoD Plod) and not the US.

- The P25 usage is by the US personnel: no different to any other US site in the world. There may be some MoD Police usage of P25, but this is purely for inter-operation with their US counterparts, on their channels
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Re: P25 -APCO (APCO P25 Phase I, Motorola, EDACS, LTR

Postby Fires999 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:53 pm

Minus1,
Not really sure how many MOD Police personnel there are in England. There roles seem to dwindle down more and more - Although Im based at Molesworth/Alconbury I dont live far from Raf Henlow who now gave Security Guards ftom Serco where MOD Police used to patrol.
Ironic really as I think Henlow was a training base for MOD Police !

Also as you say why have their own system when they can use Airwave. I guess they aren't very many MOD police to justify their own and l guess they will use what their given when Airwave goes......Not convinced that the Serco guards at Raf Henlow are a direct replacement from their MOD predecessors.....especially when they have 446mhz radios clipped to their lapels !!!!

Not far from Henlow is the old USAF /RAF Chicksands base now occupied by UK Military. I recently stopped at the gate to ask about their public museum on base....the guards were UK Mil in cammo, armed and carrying Motorola XTS 5000R handhelds but after hovering around in the car for 5 mins they never keyed their radios so my digital frequency counter showed nothing !!!!
Thanks
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Re: P25 -APCO (APCO P25 Phase I, Motorola, EDACS, LTR

Postby Fires999 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:29 am

Morning ,
Just one last question on APCO 25 in England.
Everywhere that i have seen a radio advertised as having APCO 25 option there is always a line that states "only unencrypted transmissions".
Then normally some text saying "more common in USA" but then " a few UK Military bases".

So at my base as I've mentioned the APCO 25 IS encrypted - so is there anywhere in UK that is unencrypted and then worth spending extra on a capable scanner ?

I apologise if I have totally missed the point - but it feels like the similar thread and same old question that is asked every month in Radio User about being able to listen to the Police on Airwave....same picture appears of that Aeroflex Tetra Decoder with the text stating you have to spend thousands to listen to tetra but it is possible. Again people not understanding how tetra and blue light users work their system. The same column states that you can listen to Airwave Fire on an analogue UHF handheld....yes if its going through an analogue repeater but that bit is never made clear and implies you just need to get a 457mhz radio and away you go !!!
Bit like saying that I can listen to the police on Airwave all day long....as long as the volume is turned up and im standing next to PC Plod at my local shopping centre !!!!!!!

Finally, the good old days of listening to 900mhz analogue cellphones - with scanners in the States having that portion of freqs in scanner blocked. Did the USA also change to digital cellphones ? So why do some scanners still have the 900 mhz blocked ? Are there other users now on there ?
Thanks
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