Interesting conversation re DMR, TETRA & Police...

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Interesting conversation re DMR, TETRA & Police...

Postby Davie Boy » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:16 pm

I had a very interesting conversation today with a local well known radio supplier... It started with TETRA and soon moved on... The most interesting part was that he would wager and bet good money that the Emergency Services will be on a new UK Wide DMR network within the next few years...

Yes I know what you are now thinking... hot air...? Wishful thinking...? pipe dream...? ...Certainly not and think again!

He went into a lot of detail... but to summarize... TETRA is going! Yes... Tetra will be abandoned as planned. 4g LTE I hear you say...? Ha ha. It may have a lot of money wasted on it and be given the best effort but it is highly unlikely it will ever be a permanent solution for emergency services.... at least within the next 10 years.

So what... you say?

But... there is no UK wide DMR network you say?

There actually is... One of the biggest world TETRA suppliers Entropia Digital are moving toward DMR and ditching TETRA networks. There is already a nationwide network with almost complete full UK coverage for voice and data. And DMR was chosen over TETRA for the UK even though there is already a TETRA infrastructure... but the UK TETRA AIRWAVE infrastructures days are numbered.

I was dubious... but let me stress this a VERY reliable source... so I did some digging... and found one local DMR transmission on this Entropia DMR network already on 440.5375 MHz giving me a booming signal from some distance away. It appears full coverage is either nearly there or is already achieved.

Why will emergency services go onto this...?

It is anticipated that like many other users who tried to switch from radio to cell communications... they will switch back to digital two way radio... and the only available system ready and up to handle it will be Entropias UK DMR Nationwide system. Indeed... I hear Entropia are very excited about the possibility.

Does anyone else on here have awareness of this? ...It was certainly news to me but after just a few hours digging I believe he is correct.
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Re: Interesting conversation re DMR, TETRA & Police...

Postby Alfie » Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:21 pm

This entropia dmr net is up and running in london but was not aware it was uk wide. where is the one you are hearing ? 440.5375 is one of many freqs given to entropia but the licences are not issued on a grid ref basis they are done as nat grid squares like a lot of joint radio co freqs and they seem to span all uk but hard to tell where they are just the grid ref that they cover which indicates it is a wide area link

found some interesting reading here http://www.landmobile.co.uk/news/dmr-on-subscription
reading that i can see it actually being a good and possible option and not only that but no infrastructure needed yet still a hell of a lot cheaper than any other option. i think Philip Vercruysse should reach out to the uk gov or maybe he will just be lying in wait while its all getting operational and then when 4g fails and tetra no longer has the infrastructure he will step in with the soloution ?

if they do it is digital and will be encrypted so not good news to scanner users but for the emergency services i think this would be good both operationally and financially as DMR is excellent technology and unlike tetra its user flexible with lots of fancy options like tetra.
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Re: Interesting conversation re DMR, TETRA & Police...

Postby bigbloke » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:34 pm

Google ESMCP, and whilst you're reading about it and take half the dose of whatever your source was smoking! :-)
you'll need some "substance" to make it seem credible!

EE will be running the 4G network. Common radio Access Network, ESN independant core network , and apparently a different MNC.
Motorola (who now own Airwave the current TETRA operator) are providing the mission critical services.

But a national DMR network for blue light ?????????

More chance of finding lord Lucan riding Shergar!

cheers

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Re: Interesting conversation re DMR, TETRA & Police...

Postby Davie Boy » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:19 am

LOL yes you are probably and most likely right and I am no expert.... I have to admit I like his idea and like me & you he also sees the 4g coming into effect without question he just does not think it will work long term.

I cannot find much on this Entropia net however it is clear it is rapidly expanding to cover the whole of the UK... it actually may already have full UK coverage from my research and WTR searches but I cannot confirm this as they have not yet published a coverage map for the UK of their own for some reason is has been removed from their site....? The EMS Tetra band and repeaters will go when the contract and emergency services go to 4g LTE... when that happens and if 4g were to fail what would be the alternative if they could not go back to TETRA and 4g was no good?

...it is that kind of forward thinking mixed with glass half full thinking that made me have faith in what he said.... Not only that but he is a well respected local radio dealer who talks sense. ....sure it was idle chit chat and not a lecture on how things will go down but do you really believe that 4g will work? ...and if not this Entropia net is the only other option I have been shown available in the future if the tetra 380-400MHz infrastructure has been dismantled.

...It would be better than them hijacking local shopwatch systems or amateur repeaters...

Then again... they could always call the No.1 emergency service to take command of coms if the SHTF...

Image

:mrgreeny: :mrgreeny:
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Re: Interesting conversation re DMR, TETRA & Police...

Postby T2tim » Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:14 pm

I dont understand how 4G would work for them because of coverage issues, unless the system is designed to switch to 3G where there is no 4G, or LTE? The people who say they will go 4G are usuallly those who live in cities where 4G is widespread, but have you ever considered what its like outside these major urban areas? I know because I do live outside and its crap I can assure you. 4G still needs a lot of work even on EE who have the most coverage. Mobile phone coverage is based on a percentage of the population rather than actual geographical coverage, something most people fail to take into account. I work in the mobile industry and I can assure you I know precisely what iam talking about.
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Re: Interesting conversation re DMR, TETRA & Police...

Postby Helix » Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:16 pm

T2tim wrote:I dont understand how 4G would work for them because of coverage issues, unless the system is designed to switch to 3G where there is no 4G, or LTE? The people who say they will go 4G are usuallly those who live in cities where 4G is widespread, but have you ever considered what its like outside these major urban areas? I know because I do live outside and its crap I can assure you. 4G still needs a lot of work even on EE who have the most coverage. Mobile phone coverage is based on a percentage of the population rather than actual geographical coverage, something most people fail to take into account. I work in the mobile industry and I can assure you I know precisely what iam talking about.


But wouldn't the 4G system just be set up on existing TETRA sites, thus providing similar coverage as TETRA?
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Re: Interesting conversation re DMR, TETRA & Police...

Postby fuzzbutton » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:25 pm

Helix wrote:
T2tim wrote:I dont understand how 4G would work for them because of coverage issues, unless the system is designed to switch to 3G where there is no 4G, or LTE? The people who say they will go 4G are usuallly those who live in cities where 4G is widespread, but have you ever considered what its like outside these major urban areas? I know because I do live outside and its crap I can assure you. 4G still needs a lot of work even on EE who have the most coverage. Mobile phone coverage is based on a percentage of the population rather than actual geographical coverage, something most people fail to take into account. I work in the mobile industry and I can assure you I know precisely what iam talking about.


But wouldn't the 4G system just be set up on existing TETRA sites, thus providing similar coverage as TETRA?


The plan is to have a virtual network operator that sits on top of existing 4G infrastructure, and a physical network where necessary to fill in the coverage gaps. Airwave was not the winning bidder for either of these, so I wouldn't expect the new network to use any of the current Aiwave TETRA sites.
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Re: Interesting conversation re DMR, TETRA & Police...

Postby thelad » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:29 pm

Most mobile masts have been updated to 4G.
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Re: Interesting conversation re DMR, TETRA & Police...

Postby gordonbrittas » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:51 am

They will use different frequencies depending on whether urban or rural.Something like (don't quote me) 2.6Ghz 1.6Ghz and rural 900mhz.
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Re: Interesting conversation re DMR, TETRA & Police...

Postby M3ZZN » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:40 am

i doubt the police will use dmr as that will leave them open to listeners and they hate that and why drag raynet into it
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