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Is it just me?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:14 pm
by m0lsx
I saw the following on Southgate ARC's news site.

Tips and Tricks for New and Existing Trainers
Video of the presentation given by Derek Hughes G7LFC and Alison Hughes M6COV at the 2017 RSGB Convention

QRZ shows that M6COV last modified her page in July 21015. So still being an M6 after over 30 months, she is clearly dedicated to the concept (& licence condition,) of amateur radio as a hobby of self learning.
Am I the only one that feels that the fact that someone can hold a foundation amateur radio licence for the best part of three years & still comfortable standing up & saying I will show you how to be a good trainer is why the hobby is in the mess it's in, standards wise?

Edited to add. This is not someone who helps train new foundation licensees. She is part of the train the trainers group. Yet she has not progressed her own licence beyond foundation level in way over 2.5 years of being licenced.

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:24 pm
by Darkstar
Hi Alan Maybe she has had teaching experience in a field other than amateur radio, as the teaching principals and skills are still relevant.

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:50 pm
by G4RMT
I'm not sure that applies Alan. It's perfectly normal for people with open qualification to train other people if their skill set makes it possible. When I worked for an exam board, I frequently trained people who had far more qualifications than me - in their own areas. Indeed, when I was doing this I remember thinking it very odd that I was training examiners to examine an A Level subject, and some of them had Doctorates in Music - but my strength was technology in music, plus management. I'd like to think I was a decent trainer, and competent Principal Examiner - yet I personally didn't;t have an A Level in the subject because, when I was doing mine, the subject didn't exist. The lady in question took an entry level exam - and perhaps it does all she needs. She could take, but doesn't need, the full licence?

A friend is a proper radio expert, and installs, calibrates and aligns aircraft landing systems and radio coms at a busy airport. He has a novice licence.

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:06 pm
by m0lsx
My main point is our licence makes it clear that one of the main conditions for issue, is that it is issued for "Self Learning."
Regardless of this woman's qualifications away from amateur radio, if she lacks the ability or the desire to self learn beyond foundation level, then should she be allowed to be involved in the training of the trainers? As the message the RSGB are giving, by allowing this, is that self learning is not desirable or required.
I am not criticising her for not being a full licence holder. I am saying that during almost three years, despite being part of the working group for train the trainers. She has lacked any personal commitment to that training, beyond advancement within the politics of it. Surely if she believes in training & self learning, she would have a desire to learn & advance beyond Foundation level herself?
There is no major commitment in time or any requirement for big intellectual ability to gain an Intermediate licence. Yet in well over two & a half years she has not felt the need to even take this small step.
For me this is about the message it sends out. How can the RSGB be committed to improving training & thus the long term survival of the hobby, if it's own train the trainers work group has people involved who do not have any commitment to that principal?

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:28 pm
by m0lsx
Just to add. My dislike of this situation is not the fact that someone has held an foundation for close to three years & is working within the RSGB. It is that they are involved in train the trainers. Yet clearly lack any commitment to that very same training.

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:38 pm
by G4RMT
I sort of see your point, if the trainer trainer is an RSGB 'ambassador' - but what if they are jujt very good at training, and were chosen for the training job because they are great at it? An effective trainer very often doesn't need to be immersed in a discipline. They know the specification. They know the things that must be done, and they know about quality standards and procedures. I'm not sure if being a ham radio trainer trainer, as in training the people who do the training needs ham radio skills? Sure, they're always handy, but the people at the radio clubs who do the training are hopefully the experts - they need support in how to do it, how to assess competencies and how to manage the paperwork.

Do the office people at the RSGB have ham licences? Some might, but it's not part of the job description in exactly the same way that Consultants at hospitals don't need a medical qualified person to manage their clerical and clinic work.

I see no issues with this at all - and in fairness, she'd not be doing the job if her results were poor.

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:46 pm
by Mrwoosh
To be fair I’ve known sales reps in many stores that have no interest in radio at all but have been put through the foundation license just because they work in a radio shop lol , personally I think all this hype with amateur radio licenses is out of touch especially foundation as anyone can get a pmr light license and use a hell of a lot of bands and frequencies with as much power output as a foundation holder and no recommended operational protocol , to get noobs into the amateur hobby this obstacle of foundation level should be scrapped and an online request for a foundation call sign should be implemented, once you prove who you are and your address etc you should be given a call sign to use and if you do wrong you can be held accountable just like you are now if you use a call sign , all this months to wait for foundation corses and having to attend clubs etc is a big put off to so many people I hear who want to try radio

I believe ham radio is a learn as u go hobby which no one is the best at , we all hold a call sign to be identified and pulled up if we do wrong so what is all fuss about , to many obstclaes set up by out of touch users who are holding on to the good old days which unfortunately have gone by ,
Living in hope my favourite hobby doesn’t go completely silent

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:46 pm
by CW-2E0UCW
This is part of the problem with the hobby - many look at the "self learning" and "technical" aspects but fail to remember that this is also a hobby about communication. There are some that use amateur radio just to reach out and make friends as they may not be able to go out due to disabilities. Others are in the hobby as they enjoy a specific part of it and holding the next level of licence would make no difference to them.

Some amateurs get the licence for permission to transmit on amateur bands (even if limited to 10w). They learn about qrp operation, antennas and the challenges of making distant contacts despite the limitations of their licence - this is what they enjoy - it's a challenge and they have no desire to use 400w as they manage well on 10w.

On the other hand, I know a group of full licence amateurs that work for Heathrow Airport. They are part of the training team as they specialise in various fields that are relevant to the hobby - I can't recall when last I heard any of them on a radio and this is despite them having put a DMR repeater up at the airport - they don't even use it.

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:56 pm
by G4RMT
There's a bunch of hams very active and incredibly bright people who never operate below 1GHz. Up there it's empty, and you can do loads of cutting edge things, and these people are as far away from the operator end of the hobby as is possible to be. They're operating dishes and running pretty swish systems - multiplexed digital this and that. Stuff way, way above my head. Hams have so many levels of the hobby. The ones that really annoy me are the ones who are proud to know nothing, don't care that people read their posts open mouthed in embarrassment and bang their heads against the wall that they can know so little about a hobby the pretend to be fascinated by. If they are that interested then they would find the answer out for themselves, instead of letting others do all the work for them. It's like somebody having a declared passion for football, and while I guess we'd excuse people for not quite understanding the offside rule - they ask questions like "whats the big white space with a net at the end for?" Or "do I have to kick the ball with my feet, or put it under my arm and run?" or not know how many are in the team, when they could just count them for themselves! Lazy gits.