Airline Company and Handling Frequencies 8.33

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Airline Company and Handling Frequencies 8.33

Postby TTN201 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:57 pm

Hey all,

Does anyone have a list of changes and dates for the above?
I know BA have moved from 131.9 to 131.905 and a host of others have changed recently too. Google was not my friend.

Swissport have the freqency on the web page themselves but struggling to get much beyond that.

Thanks!
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Re: Airline Company and Handling Frequencies 8.33

Postby m0lsx » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:25 pm

These small differences will make little or no difference to what we need to program scanners to listen with.
If anything, this is simply going back to the days of the old Realsitic/Radioshack scanners etc, where you put the desired frequency in & the scanner said fine, but you will be centred on a frequency a few khz higher or lower. But still hearing it.
Unless you are on the edge of the reception area 5khz out, is as good as on frequency.
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Re: Airline Company and Handling Frequencies 8.33

Postby Chris P » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:49 pm

TTN201 wrote:Hey all,

Does anyone have a list of changes and dates for the above?
I know BA have moved from 131.9 to 131.905 and a host of others have changed recently too. Google was not my friend.

Swissport have the freqency on the web page themselves but struggling to get much beyond that.

Thanks!

yet another post which clearly indicates that many people do not realise that the actual frequency has not changed only the "name " by which the Air Traffic Controllers call the channel and what actual frequency is in use when you set the dial on an 8.33Khz Transceiver to, for example setting the dial to XXX.905 sets the frequency to XXX.900 Mhz and setting the dial to XXX.910 sets the frequency to XXX,90833
However on another note there have always been transmitters on slightly (5Khz) higher or( 5Khz ) lower frequencies, on Volmet for example to enable an apparent countrywide coverage on one frequency using multiple transmitters without producing the beat notes associated with two transmitters on the same (nominal) frequency . The bandwidth of the old 25Khz receivers being wide enough to treat the three frequencies as being the same . Modern receiver input filtering and bandwidth is much narrower so a frequency off by some 8.33 khz will be attenuated sufficiently so as not to be heard / or open the squelch and not cause interference to the wanted signal hence there are now more channels available for airband comms
Regards Chris aka G8FFF nipper or tazmin88
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Re: Airline Company and Handling Frequencies 8.33

Postby Minus1 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:22 am

Most handling freqs/channels between 131.4 and 131:990 (131.9916) are now 8.33 kHz.
But you need a receiver capable of 8.33 bandwidth to be able to isolate them from adjacent channels.

Those outside that range still seem to be 25 kHz.
I reserve the right to ignore people who have made no attempt to the read the manual, and expect others to do it for them.
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Re: Airline Company and Handling Frequencies 8.33

Postby m0lsx » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:18 pm

Minus1 wrote: But you need a receiver capable of 8.33 bandwidth to be able to isolate them from adjacent channels.


I do not think any scanners available within the UK have that 8.33khz bandwidth filtering fitted, although some do have a 8.33khz step available. However some of the better & thus more expensive receivers, such as the higher end SDR's, do have have variable filters available.
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Re: Airline Company and Handling Frequencies 8.33

Postby TTN201 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:33 pm

Chris P wrote:
TTN201 wrote:Hey all,

Does anyone have a list of changes and dates for the above?
I know BA have moved from 131.9 to 131.905 and a host of others have changed recently too. Google was not my friend.

Swissport have the freqency on the web page themselves but struggling to get much beyond that.

Thanks!

yet another post which clearly indicates that many people do not realise that the actual frequency has not changed only the "name " by which the Air Traffic Controllers call the channel and what actual frequency is in use when you set the dial on an 8.33Khz Transceiver to, for example setting the dial to XXX.905 sets the frequency to XXX.900 Mhz and setting the dial to XXX.910 sets the frequency to XXX,90833
However on another note there have always been transmitters on slightly (5Khz) higher or( 5Khz ) lower frequencies, on Volmet for example to enable an apparent countrywide coverage on one frequency using multiple transmitters without producing the beat notes associated with two transmitters on the same (nominal) frequency . The bandwidth of the old 25Khz receivers being wide enough to treat the three frequencies as being the same . Modern receiver input filtering and bandwidth is much narrower so a frequency off by some 8.33 khz will be attenuated sufficiently so as not to be heard / or open the squelch and not cause interference to the wanted signal hence there are now more channels available for airband comms

I am new here and am sorry if it's "yet another post" and annoying you. I learn by asking.
Lesson learned, I'll stick to google if that's how welcoming this board is......
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Re: Airline Company and Handling Frequencies 8.33

Postby Bobcode » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:33 pm

That’s a fair point....... :sad:
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Re: Airline Company and Handling Frequencies 8.33

Postby m0lsx » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:57 pm

TTN201 wrote:
Chris P wrote:
TTN201 wrote:Hey all,

Does anyone have a list of changes and dates for the above?
I know BA have moved from 131.9 to 131.905 and a host of others have changed recently too. Google was not my friend.

Swissport have the freqency on the web page themselves but struggling to get much beyond that.

Thanks!

yet another post which clearly indicates that many people do not realise that the actual frequency has not changed only the "name " by which the Air Traffic Controllers call the channel and what actual frequency is in use when you set the dial on an 8.33Khz Transceiver to, for example setting the dial to XXX.905 sets the frequency to XXX.900 Mhz and setting the dial to XXX.910 sets the frequency to XXX,90833
However on another note there have always been transmitters on slightly (5Khz) higher or( 5Khz ) lower frequencies, on Volmet for example to enable an apparent countrywide coverage on one frequency using multiple transmitters without producing the beat notes associated with two transmitters on the same (nominal) frequency . The bandwidth of the old 25Khz receivers being wide enough to treat the three frequencies as being the same . Modern receiver input filtering and bandwidth is much narrower so a frequency off by some 8.33 khz will be attenuated sufficiently so as not to be heard / or open the squelch and not cause interference to the wanted signal hence there are now more channels available for airband comms

I am new here and am sorry if it's "yet another post" and annoying you. I learn by asking.
Lesson learned, I'll stick to google if that's how welcoming this board is......


I do not think that was how ChrisP intended his post to be seen.
Or if it was, it's a first.
Check his previous posts out TTN201. ChrisP is far from unhelpful or un-welcoming.
This change is confusing, not because we cannot work in 8.33khz steps. But because they refer to 8.33khz, but then do something totally different.
So this post shows that even after it has been discussed a few times. It is still an issue that is causing confusion.
Anyone seen those reasonably common questions which rely upon a well known psychological principal, where say the word RED, is written in the colour Blue? Psychologists & Neuroscientists have spent time & effort investigating these type of scenario & they do know for a fact that things like this do confuse us.
It is called the Stroop effect if anyone is interested.
So why has something as safety critical as an Airband frequencies been given a channel number in kilohertz, that is different to the frequency by a small, but critical amount?
Last edited by m0lsx on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Airline Company and Handling Frequencies 8.33

Postby m0lsx » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:04 pm

Say the colour, not the written word. And you will find your response are slowed down & that you make mistakes.

Image

first described during the 1930s by American psychologist John Ridley Stroop for whom the phenomenon is named. His original paper describing the effect has become one of the most famous, as well as one of the most frequently cited, in the history of psychology.



The words themselves interfere with your ability to quickly say the correct color of the word. Three different theories have been proposed to explain this phenomenon:

Selective attention theory: According to this theory, naming the actual color of the words requires much more attention than simply reading the text.

Speed of processing theory: This theory states that people can read words much faster than they can name colors. The speed at which we read makes it much more difficult to name the color of the word after we've read the word.

Automaticity: This theory proposes that automatic reading doesn't require focused attention. Instead, the brain simply engages in it automatically. Recognizing colors, on the other hand, may be less of an automated process. While the brain registers written meaning automatically, it does require a certain amount of attentional resources to process color, making it more difficult to process color information and therefore slowing down reaction times.
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Re: Airline Company and Handling Frequencies 8.33

Postby Chris P » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:39 am

TTN201 wrote:
Chris P wrote:
TTN201 wrote:Hey all,

Does anyone have a list of changes and dates for the above?
I know BA have moved from 131.9 to 131.905 and a host of others have changed recently too. Google was not my friend.

Swissport have the freqency on the web page themselves but struggling to get much beyond that.

Thanks!

yet another post which clearly indicates that many people do not realise that the actual frequency has not changed only the "name " by which the Air Traffic Controllers call the channel and what actual frequency is in use when you set the dial on an 8.33Khz Transceiver to, for example setting the dial to XXX.905 sets the frequency to XXX.900 Mhz and setting the dial to XXX.910 sets the frequency to XXX,90833
However on another note there have always been transmitters on slightly (5Khz) higher or( 5Khz ) lower frequencies, on Volmet for example to enable an apparent countrywide coverage on one frequency using multiple transmitters without producing the beat notes associated with two transmitters on the same (nominal) frequency . The bandwidth of the old 25Khz receivers being wide enough to treat the three frequencies as being the same . Modern receiver input filtering and bandwidth is much narrower so a frequency off by some 8.33 khz will be attenuated sufficiently so as not to be heard / or open the squelch and not cause interference to the wanted signal hence there are now more channels available for airband comms

I am new here and am sorry if it's "yet another post" and annoying you. I learn by asking.
Lesson learned, I'll stick to google if that's how welcoming this board is......




TTN201 Apologies if my post caused offence it was not intended to offend but only to clarify that the subject is one that causes confusion and to further explain how the confusion arises it would have been better if the powers that be had designated the channel names differently rather than use numbers that appear to be the frequency
Regards Chris aka G8FFF nipper or tazmin88
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