DMR Vs Zello?

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Re: DMR Vs Zello?

Postby m0lsx » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:38 am

bigboyblue wrote: I met over the weekend some 4x4 groups that are deploying network radio down south to their members, after using ham radio before. Its meant they can deploy a radio 'system' for not much money - yes theres about a tenner a month In sim card / data charges, but it means the entire of their area can be covered by comms. They are aware of the limitations, know the pitfalls and advantages, and even means they can have someone anywhere in the world as their controller.


There is another advantage with Network Radio over amateur radio from the 4X4 & Raynet point of view. It is not limited to the amateur radio regulations of who they can help & what they can pass.
Amateur radio licence conditions sets out who the user services are & what we can & cannot do to help.
So for example with a network radio, Raynet could legitimately pass messages for people such as Social Workers during a flood evacuation.
During a flood evacuation at Great Yarmouth a few years ago Raynet could not legitimately pass messages for all service providers within flood evacuation centrers as they were not all "User Services."
On amateur radio, Raynet needs to operate some events as training exercises to get around the licence conditions. But with Network Radio, they could help at all sorts of events. Gain training experience & not have to worry about transmissions being in the open & they could also place everyone on a map in real time, as with Network radio APRS is a free app.
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Re: DMR Vs Zello?

Postby bigboyblue » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:01 pm

m0lsx wrote:
bigboyblue wrote: I met over the weekend some 4x4 groups that are deploying network radio down south to their members, after using ham radio before. Its meant they can deploy a radio 'system' for not much money - yes theres about a tenner a month In sim card / data charges, but it means the entire of their area can be covered by comms. They are aware of the limitations, know the pitfalls and advantages, and even means they can have someone anywhere in the world as their controller.


There is another advantage with Network Radio over amateur radio from the 4X4 & Raynet point of view. It is not limited to the amateur radio regulations of who they can help & what they can pass.
Amateur radio licence conditions sets out who the user services are & what we can & cannot do to help.
So for example with a network radio, Raynet could legitimately pass messages for people such as Social Workers during a flood evacuation.
During a flood evacuation at Great Yarmouth a few years ago Raynet could not legitimately pass messages for all service providers within flood evacuation centrers as they were not all "User Services."
On amateur radio, Raynet needs to operate some events as training exercises to get around the licence conditions. But with Network Radio, they could help at all sorts of events. Gain training experience & not have to worry about transmissions being in the open & they could also place everyone on a map in real time, as with Network radio APRS is a free app.



Ah good point. A lot of people wont touch Raynet for events, as this is the exact issue - they cant dish out radios so the organisers can use them themselves.
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Re: DMR Vs Zello?

Postby Sid » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:34 pm

Many thanks for the replies chaps. I'm "slowly" grasping this now (to a point..... :dizzy: )

A simple one (hopefully)

I have several digital / analogue radios.
Lets say in two of them I programmed tier 1 DMR 446.
Would it be the case that I would still not be able to use the radios to communicate, as you have to enter a code (for which you need at least a foundation licence)?
I'm assuming the radios will not TX without said code in digital (but will in analogue)?
I have no intention of tx'ing illegally, I'm just still trying to get my head around certain aspects.
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Re: DMR Vs Zello?

Postby CW-2E0UCW » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:08 pm

PMR446 / DMR446 can be used without a licence however there are restrictions in regards to equipment and power.

Many handhelds on eBay are advertised as PMR446 but they are not and are usually pre-programmed on business frequencies.

Refer to https://www.ofcom.org.uk/spectrum/radio ... pt-devices

As for comments on Raynet - they do have their own list of frequencies not used by amateurs so would not be restricted to the terms and conditions.

Also, DMR repeaters are a lot cheaper now - no more requirement for expensive commercial gear - 2 old taxi radios, a raspberry pi and a few other bits will now do the job.
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Re: DMR Vs Zello?

Postby JohnUK » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:47 pm

thelad wrote:
DMR is internet reliant
really :sneer:


And that is the answer in a nutshell right there :wink: :thumbup:

Zello is network/internet reliant

DMR is not, it can work on it's own back to back or through a repeater. If the network/internet goes down then so will your zello communications. DMR relies on no one else and depends on nobody elses network. This is just one reason why dmr is a better option and there are many more.

Zello is good though dont get me wrong and gives you full uk coverage. For local or on site communications though DMR is always better.
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Re: DMR Vs Zello?

Postby bigboyblue » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:52 am

As this is an older thread from before the o2 ahem 'mishap' from a couple of weeks ago ……….

Look at the o2 issues from only 2 weeks ago. O2 goes down, you loose all your comms until you go out and buy more sim cards on another network. Not remotely practical when you are deployed somewhere doing your job.

Not to mention the cost - having to grab however many pay as you go cards and then topping them up with a tenner each, and getting them to your staff, all for 24/48 hours.

that's the beauty of DMR. If your repeater dies, you control all the infrastructure, and therefore can plonk another repeater in within mins. Deploy something like we do - capacity plus, and doesn't even matter if one or two repeaters die off, theres others in the swarm that keep going and take the load. As long as its got power (or battery backup), then its all good.
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Re: DMR Vs Zello?

Postby m0lsx » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:57 pm

bigboyblue wrote: That's the beauty of DMR. If your repeater dies, you control all the infrastructure, and therefore can plonk another repeater in within mins. Deploy something like we do - capacity plus, and doesn't even matter if one or two repeaters die off, theres others in the swarm that keep going and take the load. As long as its got power (or battery backup), then its all good.


But the problem with that argument is very few companies do control the radio infrastructure they use. Plus the cost of even a medium sized company having large area DMR coverage is probably prohibitive.
For example one of the car/ van recovery companies I once worked for had a local FM repeater that cost them a fortune in licence fees & repeater rental. Mobile phones, even if fitted with 2 SIM cards would have been cheaper & it would have given them national coverage & a back up. Unlike with the repeater.
We were taking vehicles all over England, all day every day. Yet we only really had comms with the company when we got within about 30 miles or less. Unless we used our own mobile phones. Although during lift conditions I did get into our FM repeater here in Norwich from the bottom of the M6 a few times & that is around 130 miles.
A small site based company may find that DMR on a privately owned repeater is viable. But they probably will not have a spare repeater laying around. So they could be out for longer than the few hours that 02 was down.
Plus the 02 communication failure was nothing new. It happened even in the days of telegraph communications.
For example..

During the aurora of November 17, 1848, the clicker of the telegraph connecting Florence and Piza remained stuck together as though it had become magnetized, even though the receiving apparatus was not in action at the time. This could only happen if an electric current from some outside source had flowed through the wires to energize the electromagnet. Telegraphers elsewhere also began to notice that their lines mysteriously picked up large voltages that caused their equipment to chatter as well, with no signal being sent. Much of this was soon attributed to the long wires picking up lightning discharges in their vicinity, and the solution was simply to erect lighting rods on the telegraph poles. [American Journal of Science and Arts 11/17 p.442]


May 25, 1915 – A wireless outage in Northern Europe. Left Germany virtually isolated from the rest of the word via direct transmissions unless the British censors allowed the messages to go over the Allied-controlled cables instead. Thanks to the auroral static disturbances.


July 8, 1943 – A severe short-wave outage blanketed Europe and Moscow for 18 hours.


September 3, 1943 – Troublesome solar flare interfered with the radio transmission of the Allied invasion of Italy.
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Re: DMR Vs Zello?

Postby mark99 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:56 pm

The Benefits of Zello are mainly that you can buy the radios / terminals online and set up a system say a shopwatch with a data sim plan, they are no range or repeater issues and other radios can be added on for minimal cost.
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