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Listening to Shopwatch

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:45 am
by un1den
I have just asked this question on a DMR forum. How do I listen to a shopwatch frequency, do I need to write a codeplug etc.
I have been told that is ilegal to listen to shopwatch frquencies. Is it ilegal. Or is it like listening to aircraft don't tell any one what you are doing.

un1den

Re: Listening to Shopwatch

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:41 pm
by m0lsx
It is illegal to listen to anything that is either not a public broadcast, a licence free transmission or amateur radio. so basically anything not intend for your reception.
So if it's not on a broadcast band. Such as VHF FM, or Long Wave etc. If it is not something like CB, licence free PMR 446, or an amateur radio transmission.
So Air band, Marine band, any form of PMR that is not licence free, etc etc are all a breech of section 48 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006.

Ofcoms guidance to scanner listeners gives the following information.

Unauthorised reception

There are two criminal offences, under section 48 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006, relating to unauthorised reception.
Offence 1
It is an offence if a person "otherwise than under the authority of a designated person: .... uses wireless telegraphy apparatus with intent to obtain information as to the contents, sender or addressee of any message whether sent by means of wireless telegraphy or not, of which neither the person using the apparatus nor a person on whose behalf he is acting is an intended recipient."



Offence 2
It is also an offence for someone, otherwise than under the authority of a designated person, to disclose any information as to the contents, sender or addressee of any message referred to in Offence 1. However, this does not apply where the disclosure is in the course of legal proceedings or for the purpose of any report of those proceedings. And, it does not apply where the information would have come to the person’s knowledge without the use of wireless telegraphy apparatus by him or by anyone else.
This means that it is also illegal to tell a third party what has been heard in a transmission a person has listened to illegally.


So basically anyone here who listens to anything not intended for their reception or licence free, or radio amateur & then logs that reception here has broken section 48 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006 TWICE. Once in listening & a second time by informing others of the frequency.

But personally I only know of one incidence where anyone has been prosecuted & that was two half witted CB'ers from my home town who use to listen to the Police when the Police were on FM & in the clear. These half wits use to listen, talk about what they were hearing as it happened & even occasionally relay what they heard over the CB. So they had no one but themselves to blame.
I wish the press cuttings were available online as their appearance in court was hilarious.
A mate & I live only a few hundred yards away from these idiots & he had numerous raids & prosecutions going back to the 60's for breeches of the marine offences act. Broadcasting on land without a licence. And I lived about 50 yards away from him & was at that time being targetted by the DTI, who at that time enforced radio law. As I ran a P O Box used by numerous broadcasters & broadcast myself. But the DTI launched a massive raid on these two & one was a disabled & mostly bed ridden female who could not understand why.."It was my hobby!!" :rolleyes: :biggrin:

Re: Listening to Shopwatch

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:16 pm
by un1den
Hi m0lsx, Thanks for the reply.

Re: Listening to Shopwatch

PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:42 pm
by mark99
All members of the national scheme are going encrypted.

Re: Listening to Shopwatch

PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:55 pm
by bigboyblue
mark99 wrote:All members of the national scheme are going encrypted.


What national scheme ?

Each individual 'shopwatch' or 'business crime reduction partnership' are their own. And therefore make their own decisions on what methods of communication they use, be it radios, phones, carrier pigeon, or none at all (just a website with wronguns photos on).

Stop scaremongering. Or as people like to call it now 'false news'.

Re: Listening to Shopwatch

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:01 am
by thelad
Troll alert! :shocker:

Re: Listening to Shopwatch

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:50 am
by G4RMT
Most stopwatch schemes also operate on very little money - asking the group for more money for new radios rarely goes down well and even frequency changes needed from time to time by OFCOM cost money many businesses simply don't have. Most would see handing back a radio for re-programming as an unnecessary expense, so once they are working, they tend to stay working in that particular mode or state. Many got sold new clever analogue systems that have user IDs, so the display suddenly displays TESCO, or Timpsons, or security - stuff like that, but then as new members joined, the old users needed an update to their radios to add in the new users IDs - many just didn't bother.

Re: Listening to Shopwatch

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:31 pm
by mark99
The national scheme is a purchasing option for systems from approved contractors.
Where you get shared systems such as parking wardens and CCTV systems then the recommended system is now Mototrbo RAS with enhanced encryption.
These are far more common in larger cities and as said many small towns will just use what they have now.

Leeds has now gone RAS with enhanced encryption as that is the system that they bought.
It prevents access to the repeater so a signal can not be traced back through the repeater in an attempt to break the encryption.

The change to encrypted systems is purely to prevent inception by people with far more sinister motives than sitting in a shack listening in.

Re: Listening to Shopwatch

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:15 pm
by bigboyblue
mark99 wrote:The national scheme is a purchasing option for systems from approved contractors.
Where you get shared systems such as parking wardens and CCTV systems then the recommended system is now Mototrbo RAS with enhanced encryption.
These are far more common in larger cities and as said many small towns will just use what they have now.

Leeds has now gone RAS with enhanced encryption as that is the system that they bought.
It prevents access to the repeater so a signal can not be traced back through the repeater in an attempt to break the encryption.

The change to encrypted systems is purely to prevent inception by people with far more sinister motives than sitting in a shack listening in.


I'm calling you out here. What national shopwatch scheme.

The only umbrella association is the national association of business crime partnerships, which has no such guidance, and not all (in fact very few) shopwatch schemes are now BCRP's. One due to cost, and 2 due to not needing to be.

Do you not realise that a fair few people on this group are very involved in schemes, including supplying radios and programming kit - and have in depth knowledge of systems, even if they aren't looked after by their company.

I say again, stop spreading misinformation

Re: Listening to Shopwatch

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:44 am
by bigboyblue
mark99 wrote:
Leeds has now gone RAS with enhanced encryption as that is the system that they bought.
It prevents access to the repeater so a signal can not be traced back through the repeater in an attempt to break the encryption.


That is also not what RAS is for. RAS was designed to stop people bootlegging their own radios off someone else’s repeaters.

You really have no clue.