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Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:43 pm
by Mrwoosh
Well after all these comments on the hardship of clubs and paying into the rsgb imo who are old hat it seems to be much easier to scrap all the middle men then no one needs to waste their time in training people who never come to the club again and all that insurance and hire costs and club fees and not to mention the aggro for the licensees Who can’t actually do anything to get into the hobby apart from having to tow the line from blundering clubs and out of touch ltd company (rsgb) intermediates ,

If a 9 year old can be trusted with a foundation license after passing I can’t see why these corses are needed for adults I mean what could somone possibly do so wrong ? And if their in the frame of mind to cause disruption keying up music or watevert is against RULES not recommendations from the rsgb surly they will just do it anyway and give no care for a corse or callsign so what’s the point of it all at that basic foundation level .

After reading all these comments I’m still struggling to see A valid reason to have this rsgb system in place which is by all accounts of others and my own not helping the hobby one bit with new users

Can anyone please help me and tell me what the actual rsgb does anymore ? And why are they paid at the hq and no money is put back into the dieing clubs and voluntary members doing these courses ?

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:46 pm
by G4RMT
The RSGB represents a great number of the total body of the ham community. Clearly lots of people do NOT like what they do, or how they do it, but plenty do. Like many national organisations, lots of people feel they do nothing, or do the wrong things - but the fact is OFCOM, the ITU and the equipment manufacturers see the RSGB as the only viable national organisation to represent the hobby. There is nobody else. Individuals or small groups with voluntary members are not suitable as contacts because they have no real ties or responsibility. Salaried staff, Ltd companies, public access to the records means they can become the focus. In my area of work, entertainment, we get the same uninformed biased opinion from people with quite genuine viewpoints - this is fine. We have gripes with Equity, the Musicians Union, and organisation called the ABTT (who seem to generate similar angst to the RSGB) and then the collection agencies - PRS, MCPS and PPL. Like the RSGB - these people are the organisations the Government go to, because they exist to represent the interests of the majority.

Ham radio is required to be regulated by the ITU, not just by our own Government or the EU - world wide rules and agreements. Each country has a national organisation and this is how it's done. Without the RSGB, the ham bands wouldn't exist, would have no protection and no newcomers. When I took the test, the thing was administered by the City & Guilds Institute. twice yearly exams, either full cost at their HQ in London or locally if your local College was willing to run the course - which many did, at full cost, not subsidised rates. The RSGB taking over the scheme made it cheaper (voluntary instructors) and relieved the Government of a difficult to administer problem. It is better now with the RSGB running it than it ever was with C&G. I thought about re-joining the RSGB after I came back to ham radio, and did a year, and felt they didn't really fit with what I personally want from the hobby - so I left again. This doesn't mean they do the job badly.

They are paid at RSGB headquarters because it is a JOB - and the radio clubs usually align with the RSGB, who do the administration and much of the special events and repeater/beacon licensing - Why should the RSGB subsidise clubs? Most clubs usually subside their national societies. They offer a framework. That's what they do. Mrwoosh I think knows exactly what the RSGB does - but what they do isn't what he wants? I pay them nothing, but when you want to check repeater frequencies, or find out somebodies details from the call book, or want to check all kinds of data, or use the QSL bureau or ........ then the RSGB is the place to look. I don't need to do that often, so I don't join. I don't read magazines much any more, and I don't need to take any more exams - so for me they don't offer anything. That doesn't make them the devil, does it? I really don't see why people seem to hate them - they are trying to represent ham radio, and as far as I can see, do it pretty well?

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:08 pm
by m0lsx
I was asked to set up a school amateur radio club several years ago, as they needed a full licence holder. I spoke to several people at the RSGB & go a lot of help. And at no point did they ask if I, or any of the young people were members. They just helped & supported us.
It changed my attitude towards the RSGB.

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:38 am
by m0lsx
If anyone wants to join a group, but NOT the RSGB, but still have access to decent club magazine, a QSL Bureau & national nets etc, then The International Short Wave League is worth joining. And unlike the RSGB the ISWL does genuinely cater for SWL's too.

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:48 pm
by Mrwoosh
Still haven’t heard a valid reason why the corses are run like this or what the rsgb actually are needed for , in your defence of the rsgb the paid employees at rsgb hq plan activations and push forms for repeaters to ofcom really is that it ? As the unpaid rsgb members help others with training and exams for free give all their time for FREE lol , I know the rsgb know how to throw extravagant dinners for their paid employees and are also great at losing 10’s of thousands of pounds of members money :huh: money that still hasn’t been accounted for ...

You can’t use the old rules is rules cop out , if the rules are not working and it’s out of touch and damaging the hobby then things need to change just like everything else in the world evoles and changes ,things need to be regulated positively not just held to ransom by a ltd company who are in it for the money .

I do know what rsgb do for OUR hobby And that’s why I’m so gutted about it as certain people must walk around with blinkers on if their actually happy with it all

Rsgb was fantastic back in the radio hay day but unfortunately that is no more and things need to change

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:29 pm
by G4RMT
Mr Whoosh - didn't you read what we posted? I'll try to explain a bit better.
Still haven’t heard a valid reason why the corses are run like this

Once upon a time, there was a part of the Home Office who had the job of running ham radio - which at the time could have been very well full of spies, working for Russia. So most of the world decided anyone allowed to speak on the radio, and talk to foreign countries needed to know how to build and maintain radios - the got the City and Guild Institute in London, who were one of the organisations able to award validated and professionally recognised qualifications to run the Radio matter Exam. It cost a lot of money. We became friends with the Russians when the wall came down, and Government wanted to get rid of all the expense and hassle. Up to this time, courses were run by colleges, with either electronics or even marine lecturers running the courses, and they were often unable to teach them, because they were not usually hams - they just had the specification to teach. RSGB I believe, felt that the best people to examine ham radio exams were hams - and there were (and still are) some willing people who have the skills to do it.This is why the courses are run like this. To my belief, there is no alternative as exams are required by international agreement, and the RSGB run the system on behalf of OFCOM, who are very pleased to get rid of it!

what the rsgb actually are needed for

The RSGB is the Radio Society of Great Britain. They represent amateurs in this country. They make sure we have a voice in Government discussions, they make sure we get extra privileges, extra bands, a reduction in paperwork, and numerous other things over the years. They handle the pretty complex system of repeaters, beacons, permits and experimental permissions. They offer advice and assistance in disputes between hams and neighbours, hams and OFCOM and being honest - ALL of what they do is available on their website. It's difficult reading, often dull and boring - but they do it. Without them, I am positive that 70cm would have been handed back to the MOD, who are the primary user, the digital radio network would have far worse coordination, and it would be far messier than it is.

If you honestly belief all the tripe you are sprouting about lunches and some being paid and some not in an unfair way, you probably feel the same about St John Ambulance, the RSPCA, Red Cross, and practically all the charities - they are Ltd companies with paid directors who take the responsibility and then huge numbers of people HAPPY to work for them free of charge. If you are not a member of the RSGB, then frankly your ignorance and stance on something some of our colleagues enjoy and appreciate is amazing.Are you a member? If you are, you can table your objections and arrogance at the AGM. If you are not a member, your views are irrelevant. Clearly the members who do think the RSGB do a good job are the ones who have opinions that count. You, and I - if we are not members, can comment, but what's the point. Our views mean nothing. We don't belong, our views count for nothing - we decided to not be a member, and that is that.

What rules aren't working? What money is not accounted for? I assume you know all members can read their financial report - something they must do by LAW, and something that has to be scrutinised by accountants. They are not in it for the money - that is quite evident.

Please Mr whoosh - spare us the constant moaning about the RSGB. If you really want to change them, join and get on their groups and committees and work to make it better. Your constant bleating is getting a bit pathetic now.

I'm not saying you are wrong, or right. You have a view on an organisation that for some reason you detest. You made the decision to not be a member, so why do you think your opinions now mean anything? They do (in my view) a decent job. How long have you been a radio ham? You say they used to be fantastic - so I assume you must be like me and be old, grey and wizened?

Please - can you just stop the constant knocking and moaning. You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet and have so many crazy notions about them you sound like one of those people with a huge chip on your shoulder.

As a non-member, you make vague accusations that seem to have no substance in fact. It's very daft that I, as a non-member of the RSGB end up defending them from your vitriol.

I suspect you simply hate them for some reason that is unclear, and it's so obvious in your comments.

I'm sorry to have had too post this - but I think you've just gone too far with the accusations.

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:29 pm
by Mrwoosh
I don’t think you get it g4rmt ,so the only reason the rsgb are involved in ham radio is to do some activations and maybe answer a few questions sometimes and not to forget push an application to ofcom an application an individual could deal with ofcom directly and more efficiently with ,

These actions imo hold no weight to their being involved in radio to the extent they are and the regs they set

I drive along the road everyday doesn’t make me a traffic officer does it ?

All I’m saying is to which I must be winding you up is what real value does this ltd company provide what us as users and clubs don’t and can’t alreafy do but for free ?

So in your opinion the rsgb saved ham radio and bands lol I’ve never heard so much drivel ..users saved the band and the fact countless radio manufacturers stuck their 10 pence worth in , there is countless empty space on the spectrum but for some reason they need the 70cms allocation lol, did the rsgb get the added 2m allocation which is now in place ? Or the now extended free band 446 channels (now 16) that we’re added a few weeks back ? Really looks like a bad argument in their favour.

And I’m making up the rsgb old boys club dinner and dances at members expense prancing about with gold necklaces on .. it’s a joke !!!

You have to move with the times I’m afraid and see the bigger picture and if you don’t thats your issue not mine
I’m entitled to my opinion like your are too and with the pages of text you’ve wrote to defend and make them look worth while to me is inadequate

If we act brainless we will always be treated as stupid and not able to manage our own affairs and need a paid middle man to make decisions for all us yes men

Do a search on rsgb Peter Kirby ...shocking !!!

I’m pleased your happy with the rsgb and the hobby in the state it’s in I might shut my eyes now and live in fairyland too.

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:45 pm
by G4RMT

In the real world individuals cannot deal with OFCOM. They simply do not recognise individuals in any negotiations. The membership of the RSGB signifies they CAN speak for a very large body of hams - if you think you can do the same, feel free to contact OFCOM and ask for something. They will pass you to the RSGB as the recognised body representing ham radio in the UK. This is not opinion, it is an established fact.

If you don't have a radio licence, then the RSGB are of little relevance to you as listeners don't have many regulations that impact on them. The RSGB formulate guidelines, codes of practice and other assistance documents - the regulations are set by OFCOM.

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO JOIN THEN DON'T. Just pack up the pathetic moaning and groaning about dinners and necklaces. You don't like them. You find them old fashioned. You think they are not necessary. Super. Your opinion. As I said - I'm no longer a member but we would have NO ham radio if it wasn't for them and other interested groups of people. If they really were like you insinuate, the Government wouldn't;t deal with them - they'd deal with balanced, fair minded and unbiased individuals like you - or maybe not?

I'm not getting into a battle here, so I'll give up as you don't appear to be able to actually form a coherent argument, just rants . Clearly your reaction is as I'd feared.

I don't have a pilots licence, so my views on the Civil Aviation Authority are pointless. If you don't have a licence, why are you so angry? Makes no sense, as unless you are licensed, nothing the RSGB has done for the amateur movement impacts on you. On the other hand, perhaps you failed your test and that's why you're angry - clearly failure of anyone passing is the RSGBs fault.

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:59 pm
by CW-2E0UCW
The use of a "middle man" is not just something done in the United Kingdom. Look at it from one perspective - do you really think that Ofcom would really care much about Amateur Radio when they sell parts of the spectrum to make money and Amateurs only pay a once off exam fee (which is a lot less than some other countries pay).

No-one is forced to join the RSGB but even without membership, you can still gain assistance from the publications that sell, the information posted on the websites and then even in person. I'm not a member but I know 2 Regional Managers and 1 Deputy Regional Manager and they are always willing to assist with various matters or guide you along the right route.

Back in my home country, you pay the "middle man" for most things, then you still have to pay for the exam (which is only run a few times a year) as well as an annual licence fee which we don't do. Even if we did pay an annual fee to Ofcom, I doubt they would be very helpful.

Re: Is it just me?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:45 pm
by Mrwoosh
All I asked for was what actual substance the middle man (rsgb)ltd has in our hobby and still no one can give me anything that serves purpose of them being elected the middle man or alm arms length management company ,I don’t doubt the need of a middle man as ofcom won’t help with amateur radio and passes it to the rsgb ltd to manage on their behalf only because ofcom as stated and proved that they really don’t give a damm about ham related issues as it brings no revenue in to them ,

I don’t know why your getting so wound up hahahaha , if your happy with the the middle man we have in place then good for you but that doesn’t mean everyone else is does it ? it also does not mean there’s not better management to be had that would benefit the hobby and the users ,

Sounds to me like you’ve got your seat at the next dinner and dance at hq ,

It doesn’t matter how much bread you use there’s still no filling in the argument you put forward with the rsgb’s actual substance in our hobby to which they actually get PAID to do what an utter joke !!!

The clubs and exam teachers get nothing nil narda but they are the ground roots to keep this hobby going as you can’t get a license without them , so in your eyes is that right ?

Who said I’m not licensed ? Only you did as it seems like your wound up and straying off topic

1 Topic is what does the rsgb actually do for our hobby that they deserve to get paid for and is there better management out there to be had and 2 is the license system to awkward as it is and does it need changing to get a lot of people into the hobby quicker and more efficiently along with other rubber stamp procedures ,3 how can it change and with what positive actions I.e new management, management overhaul etc

Stick to the point

Forgot to add

It’s not about if you don’t like the rsgb don’t join as you said ... I certainly won’t join and havnt since over £40k of members money dissapeared .. it’s not about joining them it’s a matter of having them sitting in the middle of it all whether I’m a memeber or not dictating and blundering with my hobby