Quick question on DMR....

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Quick question on DMR....

Postby Fires999 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:19 am

Hi guys,
Could someone who successfully decodes DMR just confirm i'm on the right track please?
1. Have scanner with discriminator tap fitted/mod
2. Fast 18 month laptop
3. DMR software
4. CS700 and DP3600 handhelds/prog software etc

So , tune scanner to strong DMR Signal ?
Run DMR software from scanner to laptop for decode ? Colour code , zone, group ? What info do l need from the dmr data scrolling down the laptop screen to transfer to CS700 or DP3600 ?

Baaically just want to program my handhelds for receive only - i know that dsd can provide audio but i dont want to carry my laptop each journey !
Most of the DMR User's around my area are on uhf( Hertfordshire Fire, my old brigade, now using Hytera digital on 457mhz) also means I will have my scanner for analogue stuff and one of the above radios for digital uhf stuff
...2 radios is manageable if I'm out and about.

Thanks in advance if anyone does reply
Kevin
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Re: Quick question on DMR....

Postby jimh » Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:32 pm

Kevin

To decode using a DMR transceiver, you will need ALL of the following:
- Frequency (from your analogue scanner)
- Colour Code (from DSD+ for DMR simplex or DMR repeater, or DMRDecode for DMR repeater only, or via brute force you can program in all the combinations in your DMR transceiver)
- Timeslot (from DSD+ for DMR simplex or DMR repeater, or DMRDecode for DMR repeater only, or if your DMR radio supports pseudo trunk it'll cover either slot, or brute force - you program in two channels in your DMR transceiver with each of the two timeslots)
- Group - this is the difficult one. Only DMRDecode decodes this but only for DMR repeaters not simplex. Most DMR transceivers give you the ability to program multiple Groups so you can do a bit of guesswork/brute force to get the right Group. 1-20, 100 and multiples of 100 are popular. I don't believe any DMR transceiver allows the equivalent of carrier squelch on groups or colour codes (ie receive-all regardless of DCC or Group used).

Elsewhere you asked about recording DMR signals. Yes this will work. You need to record the discriminator tap audio from your scanner, and you really need to use either a recorder with a high sampling rate (48kbps or higher) or use a laptop with the raw recording feature in DSD+ which works best. Most mp3 player/recorders only work to 44.1kbps. This technique works fine for DMR repeaters but is much more hit and miss for DMR simplex.

HTH

Jim
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Re: Quick question on DMR....

Postby Fires999 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:17 pm

Jim,
You again !! Hope you dont start charging for advice !!!!
Thanks for the comprehensive explanation...really useful.
Currently local shopwatch, local hospital and also my old brigade (Hertfordshire Fire) - 19 years with them and in 2014 across to London Fire as Airwave Tactical Advisor as well as normal duties.....Herts now using DMR/analogue compatable Hytera on 457mhz.
Im sure more pmr users will go across to dmr.

Can't thank you enough for your help on this one..
Kind regards
Kevin
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Re: Quick question on DMR....

Postby jimh » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:28 pm

no problems...happy to help.

If you do find the DMR groups in use, do post them here: I'll bet you find that most are Group 1 (the lazy radio supplier's route) but interested to see if more patterns emerge on suppliers and groups used in their DMR radios.

Also, it looks like there's a new DSD+ version due to be released soon: screenshots suggest it might decode Groups too.

Jim
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Re: Quick question on DMR....

Postby Fires999 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:47 pm

Jim,
Was going to suggest postings in the future with relevant data , freq , colour code etc.
As I mentioned earlier my local shopwatch has moved to dmr..now I did post earlier that Ofcom licence finder site shows new shopwatch details PLUS it stateprogrammingode 1,2..confirmed the colour code is actually 1er my best radio engineer buddy works for radio supplier for my actual shopwatch and he confirmed the colour code as 11 !!!!! So maybe an Ofcom "fat keyboard finger" was to blame for logging it as 1 and 2 on the licence details ??!!!!
Can I be cheeky and ask a further question ? All the sites online ive read regarding dmr in uk mention obtaining an official dmr id to be programmed into radio - as i'll be using cs700 or motorola dp3600 for RX only...do i leave that box blank when programming ?
Kevin
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Re: Quick question on DMR....

Postby jimh » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:53 pm

I think for most DMR radios you must program in the ID via the software for it to function even as rx only. Again I've seen many just default it to 1 though .
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Re: Quick question on DMR....

Postby Fires999 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:04 pm

Jim,
Ok great....over next 6 days ( got some leave from work) I will try everything from analogue scanner to programming dmr handheld. I will also post data ,colour etc .
I can see the 2015 Uk Scanning Directory book being quite bulky with all the new data against each spot frequency ..lol !!! :laughs:

Speak soon
Kevin ( North Hertfordshire)
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Re: Quick question on DMR....

Postby moj » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:47 am

I,m not being funny you guys and not trying to put a downer on your conversation but if you go sticking the details of all the users radios on a public forum you will instantly be killing the scanning hobby overnight cause as you can expect they will demand there systems to be changed to enhanced security so your more than welcome to do it in private between you but please not on here cause you also risk not being able to monitor it yourselves again .

also if you do and the relevent people see it on this forum then it could also shut it down cause the powers that be who think there secure communications dont like knowing its possible similar to the royals protection team that got proven to be insecure about ten years ago and they tried saying it was terrorism that they could be monitored with a scanner etc

I'm sure a lot of members on here understand where i'm coming from and how much work is involved to find and decode even a basic privacy code and would rather be kept off the forum rather than kill this hobby.
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Re: Quick question on DMR....

Postby benw18 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:25 am

A point well made Moj... I have several systems live around the UK and it's a pain in the backside when people start openly sharing information. However, that said if radio companies aren't now using all of the security facilities they have available to them as standard then in a way that's their own fault. I've been saying it for a while now but RAS (restricted access to system) is the real killer card. Combined with even just a basic privacy key it really does keep everyone out that shouldn't be there.

Even systems that are currently 'open' and 'scannable' won't be forever... People are becoming ever more security conscious and want guaranteed privacy when they start spending £20k+ on a new digital system. In fairness to them, why shouldn't they have privacy?

I got into radio 25+ years ago and enjoyed listening to the local Police etc. I can totally understand that people feel it's unfair that they can no longer listen-in, but like everything in the world radio technology is, and continues to move on a at scary pace. All of these enhancements do improve the end-users experience, but as a consequence the hobby of scanning is slowly dying because even the big manufacturers such as Uniden can't create a scanner that will totally decode MotoTRBO purely because so many features are propietory to Motorola (but are within the ETSI guidelines).

Anyway enough of me waffling...:-)
Force-Com Communications
Accredited Motorola Channel Partner EMEA
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Re: Quick question on DMR....

Postby moj » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:55 am

I fully agree with you ben mate and also miss the old scanning the police days and again the reason they changed to tetra was cause anybody could buy a scanner from a local tandy store and listen in with ease which is how dmr seems to be going at the moment with people posting step by step guides on here and not thinking before posting.

I understand people like to learn more and express how they did it on here and can vouch that ive also helped members in the past but my main worry is if somebody programs a dp3600 up with the fire brigades colour code and group details and leaves transmit on and start being an idiot and trying to wind them up while there inside a burning house or at a job and then somebody dies cause there not able to communicate etc it will cause a massive scandal and the media and the papers would jump right on it and you can guess what would happen next ;) bye bye trbo monitoring !

Its sad but there is individuals on here that are going to use this learn me step by step guide to cause trouble and anything that other members have worked for will be gone and encrypted or completely dissapear overnight and then we will all be back to the analogue side of scanning that will vanish in the future and forums like this will also die cause nobody will want to use it anymore.

i love digital but sadly i know it will all go silent soon cause of all the security updates so i,m enjoying it while it lasts but in the meantime we arent helping each other if we put emergency services or hospitals details on here and sorry if i sound like a right stick in the mud and apolgise if i do but i reckon we would all be devastated when this resource has gone for good.

I,m sure as benw will prob explain theres so many new motorola security protocols coming into place to protect businesses and users that we dont even know about yet and is going to kill the scanning hobby so we are running on borrowed time anyway but cmon guys think before you post trbo details on here ;)
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