163.775 & 163.825 blocking out VHF users

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163.775 & 163.825 blocking out VHF users

Postby Mark5R » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:47 pm

These two frequencies which sound like a constant DMR or Tetra sound are transmitting on high power and blocking out a lot of other users transmissions on VHF in the cheshire/stockport/sheffield/derbyshire boarders areas.

Has anyone noticed this? We have done a number of tests now with various radios and these two frequencies are seriously affecting the whole VHF band. The other day the transmissions stopped for a few hours (network may have been down) and in that time VHF signals across the band were back to normal and good signal until they started again.

Anyone know what they are used for? In the scanning directory they are listed as Vodafone, VODAFONE DATA, UK WIDE. It sounds like a constant DMR/Tetra tone. Whatever it is they are causing a big problem with communications. This is not a case of them just affecting my reception we have done various tests and they are affecting the whole VHF band reception on various radios in various areas and is something that should be looked at.
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Re: 163.775 & 163.825 blocking out VHF users

Postby Mark5R » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:50 pm

In your area they may be using different frequencies as shown below.

163.7625 159.2625 Vodafone, VODAFONE DATA, UK WIDE
163.7750 159.2750 Vodafone, VODAFONE DATA, UK WIDE
163.7875 159.2875 Vodafone, VODAFONE DATA, UK WIDE
163.8000 159.3000 Vodafone, VODAFONE DATA, UK WIDE
163.8125 159.3125 Vodafone, VODAFONE DATA, UK WIDE
163.8250 159.3250 Vodafone, VODAFONE DATA, UK WIDE
163.8375 159.3375 Vodafone, VODAFONE DATA, UK WIDE

I can state with 100% certainty that these transmissions mentioned in the first post above are causing harmful interference to other users in the VHF band and on a wide area. Especially from 163-168 MHz.
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Vodafone Paknet interference

Postby Alfie » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:05 pm

it breaks through frequencies all through the top vhf band here too. its Vodafone Paknet aka pain in the ass to radio users !!
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Re: Vodafone Paknet interference

Postby Mark5R » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:13 pm

Thanks alfie I dont know anything about this system and yes it is a real pain in the arse.

Alfie wrote:it breaks through frequencies all through the top vhf band here too. its Vodafone Paknet aka pain in the ass to radio users !!


Yes but when the transmitter was off for almost a day we noticed and tested on various systems that not only is this noise breaking through on lots of VHF frequencies and other users but it also greatly reduces their signal and receivable range. This is not just an interference to Ham radio users and SWL listeners issue but also causing harmful interference to vital communication services on the ground using VHF. This is something that needs checking and addressing IMO. I am surprised it hasnt been yet!

Is Paknet a form of paging? Is there a silver lining in the cloud i.e can it be decoded with Pocsag or SDR# and the likes?
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Re: 163.775 & 163.825 blocking out VHF users

Postby Alfie » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:21 pm

apparantley it was cracked years ago. i dont know much about the system and i dont know what kind of data is sent. possibly data and paging messages but i read something about it being used to connect remote burglar alarms and such which i think is why it was cracked in the first place. it was a while ago when i was annoyed about the interference from it and then looked it up. there was a post on another forum tm1 i think about the interference and then i looked it up a bit but cant remember any mention of it being decoded with sdr# or POCSAG will have to do some digging i think it is actually old technology as a lot of people thought it wasnt being used anymore but to be honest i wish they would just turn the damn thing off !
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Re: 163.775 & 163.825 blocking out VHF users

Postby Mark5R » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:26 pm

Alfie wrote:to be honest i wish they would just turn the damn thing off !


Yup. Less interference and hearing more would be a nice thing :thumbup:
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Re: 163.775 & 163.825 blocking out VHF users

Postby Alfie » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:50 pm

Seems like it used for wireless chip and pin payments......

PakNet Vodafone PakNet enabled mobile Chip and PIN payment terminal
http://www.hellopro.co.uk/THYRON_SYSTEM ... ciete.html

and also Cash Vans.....
http://www.cashonthemove.com/event-atms/cash7

so a complex system i wonder why they have 163Mhz throwing out all that interference when they should be above 900MHz with the rest of the mobile operators ? googling around for info isnt easy there doesnt seem to be much about it for such a high powered widespread system.
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Re: 163.775 & 163.825 blocking out VHF users

Postby Alfie » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:01 pm

and the AquaProbe FEA200 uses it whatever that is lol.....

https://library.e.abb.com/public/b91e7f ... 200-EN.pdf

so the bad news is it is not an old outdated tech that might be switched off any day soon as they use this for all manner of things :sad:
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Re: 163.775 & 163.825 blocking out VHF users

Postby Mark5R » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:05 pm

Alfie wrote:so the bad news is it is not an old outdated tech that might be switched off any day soon as they use this for all manner of things :sad:


That means unless radio users complain to Ofcom or whoever nothing will change. And as most radio users dont understand or will not be aware of what is causing a problem or interference this is something radio engineers and radio suppliers should be noticing and both investigating and reporting to Ofcom. Its a duty to their customers at the very least and as money is involved they will take more notice than they would do with a ham complaint!
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Re: 163.775 & 163.825 blocking out VHF users

Postby Davie Boy » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:44 am

So that is what it is!

...I thought it was commercial tetra as it sounds like the tetra around 380MHz.

Checking my directory it is indeed listed as such... but a little different than yours...

163.7625 159.2625 VODAFONE PAKNET DATA, UK WIDE NATIONAL USAGE Fm KimmyJS19 Oct 2015
163.7750 159.2750 VODAFONE PAKNET DATA, UK WIDE NATIONAL USAGE FM KimmyJS19 Oct 2015
163.7875 159.2875 VODAFONE PAKNET DATA, UK WIDE NATIONAL USAGE FM KimmyJS19 Oct 2015
163.8000 159.3000 VODAFONE PAKNET DATA, UK WIDE NATIONAL USAGE FM KimmyJS19 Oct 2015
163.8125 159.3125 VODAFONE PAKNET DATA, UK WIDE NATIONAL USAGE FM KimmyJS19 Oct 2015
163.8250 159.3250 VODAFONE PAKNET DATA, UK WIDE NATIONAL USAGE FM KimmyJS19 Oct 2015
163.8375 159.3375 VODAFONE PAKNET DATA, UK WIDE NATIONAL USAGE FM KimmyJS19 Oct 2015
(http://ukscanningdirectory.co.uk/)

Interesting system... Devices like cash machines usually have small antennas or are inside buildings... so they made need VHF for that extra penetration... especially if things like intruder alarms are on the system... a good constant signal would be needed!
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